CLAIM: What would you have done?

So, we had black Lexus 02' SC430 come out of the tunnel with pulled rear bumper. The passenger side of the bumper was pulled. Top part is held by clips and it got broke. Upon careful inspection, I see that the bottom of the bumper is held up by a nut and bolt. You can see that it was NOT riped off as the whole that the bolt goes through is intact. However, it looks like it is missing the nut and bolt completely. I believe that was the culprit. It had missing bolt and allowed the bumper to flap out when going through the tunnel and perhaps the blower helped it to pull out a bit and broke the top clip.

So, the ultimate question is was the bolt missing prior to wash or did it get unscrewed going through the tunnel. Honoestly, I think it's almost impossible for the nut and bolt to come loose going through the tunnel. But the customer is adamant that regardless of my explanation or theory, it wasn't like that before and now it is broke therefore we need to fix it.

I tried to explain, but it didn't quite work. So, I ended up promising to fix it if she would sleep over it one night and think about my explanation. And have her husband look at it too. If she can still tell me that it is more likely that it happened through the tunnel, then I would pay to fix it no question asked.

So, what do you think? What would you have done? I get sick and tired of trying to explain when customers just don't want to listne to you. And I can understand that. Why would you listne to anybody who is trying to tell you that you are wrong? But, honoestly, I really believe that this one isn't our fault but again, I only have two cards. Fix it and hopefully save the customer. Or deny it and definitely loose the customer.

So, what would you have done? Did I do something stupid?

-tom

Stupid, no, you really want to take care of your customers, thats how you keep them coming back. However, I would balk at telling someone I would pay to fix it no questions asked, even if my dryer motor fell through their windshield.

As soon as you promised to fix it you will be held responsible by the courts to do so, regardless of the fact if you did it or not.

This is one of the toughest calls in this business, you either have to deny the claim or take responsibility, their is no middle ground. Car washes do not routinely rip bumpers off cars. I remember my first time running a high end clientele wash about 12 years ago and this Audi comes out of the tunnel and the back bumper falls completely off the car. Customers standing around, guy is appalled, I'm dumbfounded. Took the damage claim, guy calls back a day later to tell me that he had parked at a Garage in Philly earlier that day and the valet had backed into something breaking the clips that hold the bumper in place. So the car wash finished what someone else had started.

More than likely you will lose the customer anyway because if she really believes the car wash did this, she will not come back to get her car washed after it is fixed. I think it's too late to deny now since you already said you would pay, if you do deny now, you can be sure to go to court and you will lose.

Hey, your lucky that Audi guy called back, huh? What a nice customer that was.

Yes, I agree that once I accept the responsibility, I'm done. So, I'm hesistant to do so, but often times, I have to make decision right away. Not too many people like it if I tell them that I will sleep on it and give them a call later. At any rate, I have made some mistakes doing this that if I could go back, I would have kept my mouth shut and deny the claim respectfully. But, I guess some things you just have to live an learn.

Well, the customer came back with her husband today. Not surprisingly, they still believe that it was car wash doing it. I was already ready to take the claim so it didn't come as a shocker. They sell some used bumper for about $150 on ebay, so I told them that I would order the part and replace for them with used bumper and they were cool with that.

Now, after more carful inspection, I saw that all the bolt and nuts that would hold the bumper in place is missing. There is about 8 places where you see only empty holes where a bolt of some sort should be present to keep the bumper in place. No woder if flapped and got tore up. I asked the customer if they knew about it and they tell me that nothing ever was done to the bumper. I also noticed where they had backed into something too(scuff mark and etc). But no arguing at this point. Either they are honoest customer and I have hopefully saved my face taking the claim, or they are dishonoest customer who have used me and will not come back anyway. Either way, hopefully they are not going to go and bad mouth us.

This is the only part that I don't really like about this biz. I could handle the labor and ups and downs and what not. But these claims are just so random and it's always a loosing battle. Take the claim, loose the money or deny the claim, piss off the customer. I guess only way to solve this problem is if I had extra million bucks to burn so that I can just take any claim with a smile and peace. But I don't even have twenty bucks to burn these days. So sad, but so true. Hope all you guys are doing better!!!!

-tom

Hey Tom hope this helps. We installed a N-stick at the entrance of our tunnel. Well a customer tell my manager that we broke his mirror but the camera told a different story it was broken before the wash. I recommend you get this system its worth the money. There are many more story's and this system saved my ass.

What is "N-stick"? And where did you get it? Sounds like it's some sort of camera system before the entrance of the tunnel? It takes some close-ups and stuff?

-tom

Has your wash ever done any thing like this to any other car. My guess is, of course not. Its an '02 - 8 years old and more than likely a pre-existing condition. also, since your wraps spin away from the rear bumper not towards it, the idea that it was the blowers that ripped it off is ridiculous unless it was loose to begin with.

I've had people make all kinds of ridiculous claims, dents, broken mirrors that were clearly broken before the wash, people whose exhaust system fell off in the car wash, etc. They key is to know what your system is and is not capable off.

That said, you told them you would fix it, so stop whining, fix it and learn. Also any operator that does not have video cameras at the entrance to catch this stuff is nuts. Everyone wants to blame the car wash for everything that's wrong with their vehicle. This problem is becoming ever more prevelent today. You have to take the steps necessary to protect yourself. Step number 1 are cameras and a DVR. They have saved us tens of thousdand of dollars in false damage claims, not to mention catching the stupid customer hitting the brakes as they go through and/or shifting into drive and hitting the car in front of them or jumping the track then deciding to drive through, scratching the entire side of the vehicle on the rinse arches and braking nozzles. Believe it or not!

I would like to have the N-spex system...are there any better cameras out there that would pick out scratches better?

I had a customer call and tell me that the blowers shot a rock out and broke here windshield.
I looked at the cameras and watched her behavior after she exited the wash and proceeded to spend a 1/2 hour cleaning the interior of her car and do you know that not one time after exiting the wash did she look and her windshield.

She ended up sending me a legal document regarding this and that is when I told her what story my cameras told. I never heard back from her:)

Sorry they are called N-spex. They cannot see fine scratches but we know the wash will not put small scratches on a car. We love them because my loader does not have to inspect every car. And when they do see something they point to it on the camera.

So, how much is that N-spex camera system cost?

Cameras, Cameras, Cameras. They are an indispensible tool for any car wash operator. From spotting existing damage, to having employees point to damage on camera, to seeing customer knocking there vehicle into drive and driving through the wash and/or hitting another customer from behind.

Without cameras, too many situations come down to he said she said and I know it wasn't there when I came in. Then you are left trying to explain to customers how it could not have happened here. Pictures are always worth 1,000 words - sometimes even more. Lets face it, there are no lack of stupid and/or dishonest people in this world.

Our cameras have saved us tens of htousands of dollars in fraudulent claims, enabled us to to tell customers how they need to exchange insurance information, and enabled us to send the videos to customers' insurance companues even when they do not accept reponsibility for their own stupidity.

As a business owner, if you do not have cameras and a DVR, you're are out of your mind.

The system was around $2500 minus the DVR. My total system was around $14000 with me doing the install. If you are looking for a DVR go with Samsung with 1 terabyte. The system is well worth it.

$14,000? Dang. I'm assuming that's for like 16 camera system?

I do have DVR with 16 cam. But they are all for premise shooting. I only have one cam for tunnel entrance and one cam for exit. And it's a far shot so doesn't have any details like scratches and stuff.

Now, even if you had good cam, if someone has loose trim, it wouldn't catch that would it? If the trim is loose but flushed with rest of the body under no pressure, but soon as you get some pressure or wind, it starts to flap. Like this bumper incident I had, I don't think camera would have caught it because it looked perfectly innocent before going through tunnel. But because it was missing most of the bolts on the bottom to secure it and therefore loose, that was all it needed the tunnel to blow it off.

-tom

Conclusion of the incident: So, day after the incident, customer came back with her husband. They still would not believe my explanation that the bolts were missing. They were more of the opinion that the bolts came loose when the blower blew it off. No arguing and politely offered 2 remedies. I could refer them to a body shop of our choice and they'll have to leave it their for 2 days so that they can repair and repaint. Option two was for me to just get used bumper from ebay(which there are couple of dozen or so for same model and color. Yeah, I was surprised to find that many). They didn't like the hassel of option 1 so they chose option 2.

I looked through ebay and found the best looking bumper and sent some pictures for her to look. She send me an e-mail saying that the picture of that bumper looked horrible and that she would call insurance company to see what to do. Later tells me that she want s to take it to body shop of her choosing and bring me estimate, insinuating perhaps that I pay her estimate. At that point my boiling point exploded. I sent her a polite but straight to the point e-mail that I will not pay for her estimate and that I would still do the e-bay bumper option. I also expalined to her that the e-bay used bumper was in better condition than hers as hers had some big chunk of white paint scuff and some dings and etc. Her bumper wasn't much to begin with.

Then she calls me few days later and hurriedly tells me as if I was her pesky servant and says, "yeah, just go ahead and order it. We'll pick it up." Then hangs up.

Man, of all the claims, I think I definitely should have denied this one. But too late. Just ordered the bumper. Now, let's see what happens when she come to pick it up. Will she take it and leave? Will she never come to pick it up? Will she start picking at it and say the used bumper was not in good shape? Hmmm... we'll see.

-tom

how much was the bumper?

$120

Tom,

For the record, you can ask a customer to use your body shop, but you can not demand it. By law, they have the right to choose the body shop of their choice.

What bothers me is that we had mutual agreement. We had good handshake and they even thanked me for being kind. They were cool with used bumper. We had areed on it. Then after few days, she gets a different idea and starts to pull string on us and that's what's bothering me. I made honoest promise and kept it and but they don't and for some reasons they think that's okay because they are "customer" or something. And I guess it may help to mention that from the very first moment I had a gut feeling that this woman was after something. She nice clothing and everything but first thing out her mouth was "I don't have money to pay for this". Then she called her brother who shows up in fancy yellow Ferrari. Then she calls police insisting that she needs to get police report. Then she makes me talk to her husband over the phone. It was busy day and I didn't want to make a scene and so I think that might have made me cave in a bit too.

All in all, what's bothering me is the fact that we had clear understanding and agreement where we were all satisfied. Then as we if had never spoken she trys to do her own thing. I think she might have seen this opporutnity as a way to get quick few hundred bucks. Well, it's not finished yet. I have the bumper ordered. Let's see what happens when she comes to pick it up.

-tom

Tom, You need to be more confident about how your wash process works and what can and cannot happen. I would have examined the bumper immediately to determine the cause of the incident and relayed my findings to the customer with no holds barred. I don't know how long you have been in the carwash business, but in my 30+ years I have never seen a bumper come unattached from a vehicle that didn't have a pre-existing problem. That goes for many other types of damage also. I always look closely at all damage claims before I make any commitment to liability. If you feel that you need to do something to keep the customer and make some type of goodwill gesture, make sure they know you are not admitting any liability. Sometimes you just have to follow your gut and tell the customer that you are not going to pay. I know you don't want to get a reputation as a ruthless greedy business owner, but a reputation as an easy mark to get free auto repairs is just as bad. My motto is; The customer is always right, except when they're wrong.

Yes, I agree I should have been more bold. I knew that this bumper incident was not the tunnel doing. I'm 99% sure. But this was a case where I did it as a goodwill gesture. But I think my mistake was that I made such gesture to wrong person.

On a different note, my biggest fear dealing with these calims is that "what if I'm wrong?". The more claims I see and deal with I start to learn what to look for and what our wash can and cannot do. But nevertheless, there is always a small voice that ask the question, "what if I'm wrong?". I don't mind pissing customer off if it was that they are wrong. But I would so be misrable if I had pissed off a customer who was right. So by that definition, I didn't handle this bumper incident quite well. I know I was right and I should have been more bold about it, but you know how sometimes you get spell of incidnets? Like for few months you go incident free and all the sudden you get a bunch. We've been quiet for a while and all the sudden I've been getting quite a few incidents. But what's funny is that every single one of these claims were pretty easy denial cases(e.g. harsh scratches on just-bought-used-car, swirls on just-bought-used-car, liftgate not working, etc). But all these denial cases started to give me a sense of insecurity: am I really denying the denialbe claims or have I learned to deny just about any cases, even the ligit ones? And so i think that insecurity might have played a big role on this bumper incident. Normally, I would have examined this and denied it no sweat. But it was one of those maike-up-for-guilt-feeling moment or something. Am I making any sense?

Like I said, I hate this part of the biz, but I understand that it comes with the package and I gotta deal with it like it or not.

General advcies from this forum has been pretty consistent: Regardless of the customer's past or future, deal with claims objectively and deny if it ain't so and fix it if it is so. Sound so simple, but hard to practice. I guess it's one of those things I gotta live and learn and learn and learn. Going on 3rd year so I must just be a bit green on it. Hopefully, it'll come along.

Thank you all for your sound advice and guidance for the budding grasshopper.

-tom

One last piece of advice, but first a question, what is you process for handling a damage claim,do you have a form that you fill out with the customer? If you don't, you need to create one and standardize your process for handling claims. The piece of advice would be, if you have to negotiate with the owner as to how to handle the damage claim, get it in writing and have the customer sign off on it before doing anything. That way if they come back asking for more, you can refer them to the agreement they made, if at that point they do not want to follow through on the agreement, politely instruct them that they make want to contact their insurance company to get their vehicle repaired, since you are unable to come to an agreement. And don't let the threat of "well you will hear from my attorney" deter you, because in most cases (in my experience) that is an empty threat meant to scare you into submission.

Do you have a sample of such claim form? Or can you tell me some of the essential items to be present on claim forms and what are some items you should not include on claim forms?

-tom

Tom,

Send me an e-mail: Detailshop09@yahoo.com, I'll send you a sample form you can use and tweak as necessary.

John

Awesome! I just sent you an e-mail, John.

Thanks!

-tom

We recently had a customer claim that we scratched her car. The scratches were on the rocker panels. The customer talked to the attendant and seemed to convince the attendant that the scratches were made by the car wash. After getting an "agreeable nod" from the attendant, the customer then approached the manager indicating that "even the attendant" agreed with her.
Two other customers coming out of the tunnel saw the woman looking and pointing her car and then began to look at their cars. Marks on their cars were in completely different places (one made from a tree branch and the other seemingly from a grocery cart 12" apart). It was difficult to explain to the customers, even after bringing them into the tunnel showing them how the system works and even after washing my own car three times in a row immediately after theirs that it was impossible for this to happen in three different areas on three different cars in succession. Customers get mental blocks - they don't understand how a car wash works, nor do they care to learn.
Rule #1 - Caution all workers on site to not say anything at anytime. A customer could use the attendants comments against you in court. Not that it happened in this case, but it could have severely weakened my case.
Rule #2 - Even if it happened yesterday - it just happened for the 1st time. Negative press travels quickly.
Rule #3 - Attendants are to let the manager know immediately if they notice a fresh scratch or mark. The manager will casually walk over to see how things are going and will "casually" look at the car. After all, if we do damage one, we don't want to damage many. He or the attendant out front may have noticed the scratch on the way in. Point is - let the manager know about it and let him address the situation.