How good is the wax against car wash?

So, when you do a wax job, how much of that wax gets taken off if you go through a typical tunnel wash? I'm assuming that the wax can withstand few wash and handry, but is there some estimated wash it can withstand before you would have to apply wax again?

-tom

I think that would depend on the wax used, and how thick a coat. I know time is a horrible way to measure anything in the car wash industry, but every 3 months is what I have always gone by.

It gets even more complicated than that. Waxes also break down over time and exposure to the elements. About all you can do is offer a "rule of thumb" estimate on how often it should get re-waxed.

There is a big difference between waxes and paint sealants.

A typical automotive wax might last 30 to 45 days under the best conditions. If you wash the car every week, whether through an automatic or by hand it would last even less.

On the other hand, a paint sealant which has a different type of silicone fluid in it will last longer. Under the best conditions up to 6 months. But again if you wash the car every week you might get 3 to 4 months out of a paint sealant, any paint sealant.

And, automatic car washes do not use "HARSH DETERGENTS" as stated in many of the informercial ads on TV.

Regards
Bud Abraham

It makes good sense to avoid painting with such a broad brush.

Technically, there is no difference between wax and paint sealant... simply because a wax is one of many types of paint sealants. And given that there are numerous types of "waxes", the statement is awash with broad confounding definitions.

As for car wash chemicals, the detergents used in many commercial car washes most likely run the gamut from mild to harsh.

Broad generalities, indeed!

All of these answer seem like typical manufactirer talking / sales points. Don't get me wrong I've heard and used them for years.
I have been in the industry for 13 years and have never actually seen a scientific study done on this. I would love to see one if someone has seen such proof.
A great tool for selling the need of a wax job is to use cellophane and rub a surface of the vehicle, this will allow you to feel all surface contaminents. I have also used a spray bottle and shown the customer that the water no longer is beading on the hood.
-Rob

Mr Raskell

Not sure why you say that the comments are talking/sales points???

The reality is that a wax is a different formulation than a paint sealant.

Yes, as Mr Okum infers they both provide a "sealing" layer on the paint, they are "chemically" different. As mentioned above, a key difference is the type of silicone used. In waxes, what chemists call "standard"silicone fluids while paint sealants use an amino-functional silicone that does require a "cure time" to bond to the finish. Not to say that this bonding is anywhere near permanent or particularly long-lasting, it will last longer than a wax.

Some sealants have wax in the formulation and some do not.

COMPARATIVE STUDY of AUTOMOTIVE PAINT SEALANTS & WAXES....this is a study that we commissioned that compares 25 of the more popular waxes and paint sealants used by detailers in the USA and Canada. The products were tested for:

a. Reflective gloss before and after application using a Glossometer
b. Reflective gloos (loss) after 12 washings using the same Glossometer
c. Durability (in this case resistence to salt water).

If you would like a copy just email me at buda@detailplus.com

The cellophane demonstration does not really sell the need for a wax, it sells the need for "claying" the surface to remove contaminants. I used the test just yesterday with a customer. My car has several coats of both paint sealant and weekly coats of wax on it, but still has the "sandpaper" feel when the cellophane test is used simply indicating how "invisible" IFO contaminates the finish, with or without wax or sealant.

As for water beading. Because water beads on a finish does not mean that it has protection. A number of oily products inorganic or organic can cause water to bead but that does not mean the surface has protection.

Our chemist has pointed out to our marketing team that the elements that provide protection in a paint sealant or wax does not necessarily cause the water to bead and, as mentioned, the elements that cause water to bead on a paint finish do not necessarily provide long-lasting protection.

From a "sales" point of view you can certainly "fool most of the people most of the time" with the cellophane test and the spray bottle with water test too.

The man I was talking with yesterday worked for a retail paint company that makes Rustoleum and other retail aerosol paints and had some knowledge of paint finishes and tests, etc.

Yet he has never taken his 2008 BMW through a carwash, thinking they scratch the surface. At that point a 2009 Black Mercedes pulled out of the car wash and parked near where we were standing, the owner towel drying his own car. I asked the man with the BMW to come over to the car with me. There was not a scratch in the paint and I asked the owner how often he uses the wash and he said, "two or three times a month."

This same BMW owner had no idea about IFO nor the clay product and how the importance of removing the IFO if he wanted a deep, high-shine finish.

Lots of myths, misunderstandings and misinformation in this industry.

Regards
Bud Abraham

What is "IFO". Is that like "Industrial Fall Outs"? Then is Industrial Fall Outs? Put another way, what really makes the sand paper kind of feel? I know that it's combo of many things, but is there one or two particular "fall outs" that tends to attack the paint more than others? Like, maybe break dusts or rail dusts?

I've always wondered what exactly made such "fall outs". Because I have seen some cars that were several years of age, and I confidently try to show the customer the need for clay, and I hardly feel anything. And the customer swears that they've never detailed or clay before. But then again, I've seen cars that seemed brand new and has very much sand paper feel. Either way, clay seems to be a hard sell unless the customer is really anal. I mean, they can't really see it so they don't care.

What other benefit would claying have besides getting the smooth finish "feel" on your fingers?

-tom