tire dressing sling

I'm sure you’ve experienced the leading brands like Black Magic and Armor All slinging tire dressing back on your car. Well I found a product at wal-mart called Miracle Glaze and it is the best. I am very hard to please, and I've tried every thing, but this product stays on the tires and it doesn't sling on the car when you drive off. I think you should try some, especially if you've lost faith in tire dressing like I had .

I assume this would be for personal use. I think that this topic would be better for a Corvette forum or something like that. Although I will try some, a good tire dressing is a hard find.

I Googed "wendell smith miragle glaze," and the first thing that came up was http://www.miracleglaze.com/company.htm .

lol

miracleglaze1, Are you selling your product here or looking for information? I am very skeptical when the product being praised is also the poster's name!

My thought is that you HAVEN'T tried everything. OR maybe you don't understand the difference in certain types of dressings and how they work.
I would suggest that you really do your homework to check out the diferent types of water based and solvent based dressings on the market and then how the application can chnage to overall outcome of those tested.

Wet tire/dry tire
Clean tire/dirty tire
Hand applied/machine applied
Solvent based/water based
Paint brush/paint pad
Foam/spray
etc/etc.

The Doc, did you Google those keywords I posted? The page I linked contains the original poster's actual name as the creator of the product.

PM from miracleglaze1:

"yes your right, I am the creator. I knew people would see that and I did it that way as an interest creating situation. Now that I have your attention, this is the only non-sling solvent based dressing that you can spray. let me know what you think. Sorry about not telling you I was the creator upfront. The comment that I posted was a customer email we received."

I also received a personal message from Mr. Smith.
The issue for me wasn't the product, but more about people trying to sell their "Best Ever" products on this and other BB's without consideration for other companies that support the industry and are "asked" not to use the BB's for solicitation of new business.
Dare I call out a few other's?

Steve

Ok see this is what I don't get this site has a place for people/companies to market their name, site and info. Just use that, this is not like other forums that ban/edit everyone but paying advertisers. It is one thing if someone asks a question and a supplier answers it in a way that they can help, it is another to start a thread with misleading info.

This site is used by operators and distributors. We are all entitled to pound our own chest on occassion if we come across something we feel works well. Alot of us have promoted products, methods of repair, efficient means of operating our businesses.

Crown exactly but I don't think I have ever seen you start a thread that was misleading on Bioshine. You see the opportunity to help someone out with the product/s you carry and you offer up your help/suggestions. That I respect. I would invite miracleglaze1 to come back and join the conversation, I am without a doubt he has valuable information to offer. Just be who you are!

Thanks Danny. I try to be unbiased in my responses. I think all of the operators in this site try to help each other - although it doesn't always come across that way and it is unfortunate. I have never tried Miracleglaze.
There are alot of products I have not tried. The solvent and water based tire shines all have their place in the car wash environment, depending upon what you are trying to accomplish or tolerate. We can only brag about the ones we know about or have used. Best, best ever, better than, all express our excitement over something better than what we are currently using until we run into something better.

"Thanks Danny. I try to be unbiased in my responses. I think all of the operators in this site try to help each other..."

You hit it on the head as to why I come back to this forum. A good group that are knowledgable and passionate about this industry and willing to help out his/her fellow man. LOL even if it does lead to some heated "debate"! The way I look at it is debate is good for the mind.

I'm not misleading you, the science speaks for itself. The process of emulsification is to force oil and water to mix. All water based tire dressings; yes I said all-have silicone emulsion as the lubricant or the ingredient that produces shine and protection. Now, after you do that the surfaces you are trying to protect are made from crude oil; for example vinyl, rubber etc. What do I mean? Carbon Black...the substance that exists in all tires comes from crude. This carbon black is the substance that is resistant to UV rays and ozone, and the reason tires are black in color. Would you protect that surface with water or oil? Research shows that oil is better as a lubricant than water. Water based tire dressings are commonly 60-80% water. I'm not throwing down on water based tire dressing, because I have a formula that I developed. The point is...to say or think that water based is more suitable than solvent based is just not true, just on the science alone. So my statement isn't misleading it is factual. I am a researcher and what I know is based on facts and proof, not my feelings and what I think. Please advise

your original statement, though, was misleading. you wrote it as if you were some every day joe that ran across miracle glaze, and its so wonderful everyone should try it, not as the inventor or seller, with a vested interest. transparancy is must to ensure your credability.

Wendell I have to agree with Chad. Your first post to start this thread is exactly what he stated and that is why you recieved such a hard time about it. You are obviously a very knowledgable person. If your first post was something similiar to what you posted today you would have recieved a much warmer welcome. This forum is a good group but by no means naive. Come back and share your knowledge with everyone and as they share back you may find more acceptable avenues to market your products to this demographic.

Wendell,

While some of your factual statement may offer some truth, the reality for the industry right now is the cost of solvent based dressings are skyrocketing with no real relief in sight.
There are very good technologies available to water based dressings and are being worked on with my company.
The petroleum hydrocarbon issue is not new and was a problem a few years ago when sling would react with the "flex" agent used in the painting of flexible plastic automotive parts.
The solvent could permanently stain the painted parts and was especially noticeable on lighter colored vehicles.
The other issue with "sling" is that (especially on dark cars) the dressing flies all over the place and makes a mess of a freshly washed/cleaned vehicle.
Technology in water based dressings have come a long way and with that developments have led to some very good Commercial products.
If you have something that is awesome and offers great results, get it in to the market place and put it up against the others you believe are sub par.
The original post also notes that it was purchased at a local retailer, are you prepared to offer larger commercial sizes at comparable cost?
If the dressing is say $5.99 for a 16oz. container a 55 gallon drum would be $2635.00!
I'm not sure of the cost, just making a guess.
Even at 16oz/$.99 retail the drum would be $$2195.00

Thanks

If I go to Wal-mart am I going to find Miracle Glaze on the shelf?

Are you an approved Wal-mart vendor?

Stuart

miracleglaze: Nice attempt to clear up confusion between water-based and oil-based tire dressings. I have found most operators I have talked to think water-based dressings have no silicone in them. Even in Doc's post above, he is careful not to disclose that water-based dressings have silicone. Setting Bioshine aside, the only difference between water based and oil based dressings is the chemistry used to get the silicone onto the tire.

I think just about everyone knows the problems associated with oil-based dressings: sling, reclaim problems, slippery work surface, cost, premature aging of the rubber, cost....did i mention cost?

Water based dressings, which utilize emulsion chemistry to apply silicone to the tire have their own set of problems. Depending on the emulsion chemistry used, sling may no longer be a problem. However, other problems like slippery work surface, premature aging of rubber, reclaim contamination, and cost....yes cost....still plague the silicone dressing industry. Water-based dressings are far more sensitive to separation from contamination. Take a sample of your tire dressing and pour it into a small container of your reclaim water. Allow to sit for a few days. That's what is going on in your reclaim system.

I'm enjoying our conversations, but just a few clarifications. Water based dressings do have silicone, its called silicone emulsion...it simply means dilutable in water. With that being understood, when you emulsify silicone from its oil state to a water soluable state you change the molecular structure and in that state it can not penetrate rubber, but it does encapsulate the surface providing protection. I will be happy to share some of my raw research data that proves my statement. There is no chemistry that gets silicone in the tire, except when you blend the SBR or molten rubber. Rubber tires are the most non-permeable man made materials around and if it weren't for UV and Ozone it would probably last much longer...provided you didn't drive on them. I have sources in the tire industry that share this info with me. Did you know that UV rays from the sun purifies our lakes, ponds and streams and is a necessary force in our atmosphere? By the way premature aging of tires is attributed to some of the solvents used like mineral sprits, kerosene found in solvent based, and methanol which you find in water base dressing. This is what destroys the rubber not the silicone, like people in our industry claim

A solution is when you mix something in water that is dilutable in it. An emulsion is when you mix something in water that will not dissolve in it. You cannot "emulsify silicone from its oil state to a water soluable state." You can only emulsify it with water.

Mircleglaze,

First, don't try to pull the wool over these guys eyes! Many of us are far too versed at sniffing out a rat. We post on other "forums" where it is strictly forbided to promote your product and not pay the administrator to advertise... so consider yourself lucky that Speedy is so nice to keep this a site open and so moderate to continue discussing this topic and keep mentioning your product!

Other than that, I do find it a fasinating conversation between Doc and others on this. I won't however be running out to walmart to test it at this time. As you develope it into a product that can be use in a tunnel application, please let us know.

Good luck... and make millions! That's all of our goals and wish for each other! Just be honest here.

Hello room

Im in numerous car show events all over the country. I saw the Miracle Glaze commercial on the Speed Channel a couple of weeks ago. I contacted my brother in Miami because he does alot of detailing for stars in that area. I asked him if he ever heard of it. He told me yes and the people down there were buying it so fast that it was sold out in the Wal-mart close to his house so he had to go to another and it was only a few bottles left. He told me it was the best he had used and he's being doing detail work for over 17 years. So I went to the Walmart up here thats a good drive from my home to get some. I didnt want to order from the company because I hadnt heard of it. So when I got there I asked one of the employees about it and he told me I was the 10th person that day that he heard ask about it. When we went to the area it was only a few bottles left so I grab what was left because I have several cars. the next day I washed a couple cars and applied the miracle glaze on the tires. I was very impressed about the product. My tire had a gloss like i've never seen. I contacted my buddy who gets cars ready for the Sema shows. I told him about it also and he told me I was too late. I was already using it. And he agreed with me that the shine was great and that it last for a long time.

To miracleglaze1
I dont know if you have any relations with the company or not. If you don't shame on you. If you do, man this a great product and what took you so long to come up with something that is no sling. Just kidding. But the product
is great guy and I appreciate it.

All the talks about the chemical engineering stuff I dont understand. But I do know when your tires look good. Thanks everybody.

Not gonna say it... ain't my site.

Ok, got another PM:

"We are saying the same thing almost, but just in a different way. When you take to liquids that don't mix, like oil and water for example. The process of adding other ingredients to help hold the mixture together, so that it is stable and will remain that way...that process is called emulsification. Most people don't really understand the difference. Our industry produces a lot of ignorance regarding chemicals, largely because a dummied down operator is easier to manipulate. An informed operator is harder to manipulate. That isn't a put down, it is just a fact. I have been on both sides of the table, so I know this is true."

I obviously knew what "emulsion" meant. You remind me more and more of infomercials like those that advertise the air cleaner vortex device and use two cola bottles to demonstrate how the spinning action of water helps it flow from the top bottle to the bottom one.

To which "sides of the table" are you referring?

mep1 gotta luv ya! The way you post the "private messages"... are you sure you weren't "deep throat" in the Nixion days?

Back when I work for the school board of Philly (when I was in HS), I managed 3 greenhouses for my Ag department. It was my job to weed, spray, whitewash (no political puns guys) and run these greenhouses... $2.85 an hour in 1978. I did it for 4 out of the 5 years I went to HS (I repeated 9th grade because I spent so much time in Shriner's Hospital... that I just wanted to finish one full year of school on my own, something I coldn't do since I got hurt in 3rd grade) in which I applied chemicals of many kind to plants, herbacides, fungicide, pesticides.

As others said, water and oils don't mix. This is basic chemistry, so we add "wetting agents", "sticking agents" or "emulsifiers". If you live down here in Florida... we have orange trees that get SCALE and one of the best old chemicals I used was VOLIC OIL.... but it doesn't mix with water so you add and emulsifing agent to apply it.

Anyway.... that's my trip down memory lane for today.... whiteflys, scale, meally bugs... MALATHION. Basic chemistry does not take a degree in science to understand. Practical application of knowledge and someone pointing thing out, like MEP1 did helps when you can explain thinks simply without the "smoke & mirrors".

Ok I get the point! Let's just talk about football, maybe we can get something out of that.

Be well!!!

All I can say is that this was a fascinating conversation about an important subject. Hope we have more of them.

Stuart

This weekend, I compared a few favorites: Wet n Shiny, Black Magic, More Shine, Detail 2 go and Bioshine. Though I distribute Bioshine - I gave each one a fair assessment. To be candid, I wasn't impressed with the Silicone tire shines. I expected alot more shine. They would be durable because they contain silicone but any product that contains silicone should be durable. The Bioshine shined just as much or more - and without the silicone.

I haven't tried Miracleglaze yet, but I will comment on this one after I try it. I assume from the reading above that Miracleglaze contains silicone and thus creates a slippery floor or pavement - which is not good for employee or customer safety. Car washing industry - especially in california is eventually leaning away from Silicone mainly because of environmental concerns.

If I get to Wally World... I'll look for it and compare.

So, after all the hoopla this thread generated, I figured I'll go out and try to find this product at my local Wal-Mart. In the automotive section, it had an end-cap display and there was a TON of product still on the shelves. I recognized it immediately, I had actually picked up a bottle of Miracle Glaze a few months back and I had put it back on the shelf because of the cheap appearance of the packaging.

Miracle Glaze comes in two different delivery systems: 1) typical spray/trigger bottle and 2) an aerosol can. The packaging/label on the product looks very cheap... it basically looks like someone printed out the labels with an inkjet at home onto paper with an adhesive backing and then slapped it onto the bottles/cans. Other than the cheap looking labels, the cost was very competitive (compared to other similar/tire-dressing products I saw on Wal-Mart's shelves) at $4.95 per spray bottle or aerosol can.

As with any new product, we try it out on our personal vehicles first before attempting to use it on customer's vehicles. I sprayed the tire shine on my personal car this morning and it looked very shiney... true to the packaging description, it looks like "ice". But I personally prefer water-based formulas as opposed to Magic Glaze's oil-base and I would have to say that BioShine's shine is just as glossy out of the bottle and on the tire. Now, let's see how durable and long the shine from Magic Glaze lasts. Give me a few more days and a few more vehicles to test it out on and I will report back again.

- J.

I checked out bio shine, they say they don't have silicone. It probably uses glycerin in place of silicone emulsion. This mostly is used in the body shop industry, because it won't cause fish eyss on paint jobs. I know that solvent base products are by far best, and our company makes a water base also.

"This mostly is used in the body shop industry, because it won't cause fish eyss on paint jobs."

wtf?

I guess miracleglaze means that silicone dressings (such as his) will cause fish eyes on paint jobs.

Couldn't resist. Sorry.

check out the latest developments in Bioshine at www.annfordinc.com. A new addition: BioShine PLUS. Dries completely. No tacky silicone residue that will sling at highway speeds. Lasts. Meets "green" qualifications. Samples available.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear about fish eyes. Before painting if there exist silicone residue, it can cause fish eyes in the paint finish and you will have to redo the paint job. We sell glycerin based dressing as body shop safe. On the bioshine they state that silicone removes carbon black from the tire. I disagree with that, it’s not the silicone that is doing that. It is the solvent breaking down the carbon in the tire not silicone. Miracle Glaze is the only spray on solvent based dressing that is non-sling and it doesn't have to be wiped on. The bioshine is a wiper and it can't withstand water like our solvent based can. We don't use the traditional solvents that other brands use that attack the carbon black in the tire. If carbon black can withstand UV rays, then it can certainly withstand silicone which is a non-hazardous material. Glycerin doesn't offer the UV protections that silicone offers, which makes it less usable as a protectant, like silicone based tire dressings. I hope that helps you guys.

Miracleglaze:

Where do we state that silicone itself removes carbon black? It is a well-known fact that it is the chemistry used in both water-based and oil-based tire dressings that remove carbon black. Hundreds of articles can be found when you "google" "carbon black silicone".

Bioshine is water soluble. Miracleglaze is not. Bioshine will not foul reclaim systems/equipment. Miracleglaze will because it will not mix with reclaim water. Bioshine may be applied by any manner. Where did you ever read it may only be "wiped"?

When you apply Miracleglaze to a clean, dry tire, what is that black stuff that can be easily wiped off? carbon black? Why won't Miracleglaze dry?

So if I'm on my way to the body shop for a paint job and decide that I have to have shiny tires on the way, I should stop and pick up your glycerin-based tire dressing... got it.

I'm beginning to wonder how well snake oil would work as a "no sling" tire dressing.

so who would win in an underwater knife fight, miracle glaze or bioshine?

Ok boys, one more time. The chemistry huh? Well carbon black won't come off sir, its not paint. The solvent in most tire shines react with the rubber not the silicone. You can't wipe black stuff off when you use Miracle Glaze, dude. Why don't you buy some and see. Miracle Glaze doesn't contain Mineral Spirits, which gives you that black stuff. By the way its not just carbon black, its everything in the rubber. You use a solvent in Bioshine too, and I know what it is. You have to, because glycerin is a thick chemical and water alone won't make it thin enough to spray. The water based solvent you use is in the alcohol family..isn't it? Let's see if you answer this question in your next comment. I'm going to the gym now and I will see when I get back. Miracle glaze is a post prep application, it will never be in reclaim water anyway. The majority of tire dressing applied in the car wash industry is applied this way(post prep) and so what that you will need to clean the lot every now and then. If you don't spray product on the concrete it won't get slippery anyway. I will show you how to apply Miracle Glaze and none will get on the ground. Your last comment, it does get dry. Is there anything else you'd like to know

this is fun...

Lloyd, I forgot to answer your question regarding my statement that you said silicone removes carbon black...This comes from your website; "Bioshine is tire-friendly as it will not remove carbon black from the rubber. Water and oil-based silicone dressings will remove carbon black". This is complete dis-info my friend. Carbon black is added to the SBR in a molten state, before the material is injected in a mold. The finished tire product isn't permeable enough for chemicals to remove just carbon black without removing everything else. Now there are other substrate materials in the sidewalls, but those components are made from different materials altogether that don't contain carbon black. I know what I'm talking about on the subject of tires. I've studied tire manufacturing for over 10 years. I've also read classified confidential documents from company's that make tires everyday. The whole process from state to finish. If you want to know something about tires and how their made...I can help. The technology hasn't changed very much since the steel belted radial tires came out. However the low profile high speed tires are very different, because of the design, but much stronger.

miracleglaze, maybe I should have written: "Bioshine is tire-friendly as it will not remove carbon black from the rubber. Water and oil-based silicone dressings will remove carbon black along with other ingredients from the tire." How's that? Happy now?

This argument is pointless as I doubt anyone in the carwash industry cares if silicone dressings remove carbon black (and other ingredients). I believe what they care about is performance, cost, safety, and the environments both inside and outside the wash facility. When someone views their wash facility from a satellite (google earth, mapquest, etc) and sees a trail of black leading from the exit end of the wash to the street (and beyond), then maybe the carbon black issue will surface.

Is Miracle Glaze available in California? I believe Solvent based dressings are banned here ...

The VOC regulations are different in California, look for them to change. The new regulations in California have cost the consumer billions in high prices for VOC compliant consumer products. This global warming, environmental stuff is all about making money. The solvent is not the issue, its VOC. Miracle Glaze is VOC compliant. However there are some chemicals that are exempt from the regulations…provided they support certain industries. Congress put a loop hole in the regs to help certain industries with strong lobbies; wink, wink, if you know what I mean. The ISO grade solvents are not affected by VOC regulations anyway, so it’s a wash.

That is much better Bioshine, but it’s not the silicone or water. The chemical that reacts with rubber is the solvent...for example Mineral Spirits, Kerosene etc. These chemicals have a cutting power that degrades the rubber and speeds up the dry-rot process. You are doing better though. Let me know if I can help. Are you applying dressing in the tunnel at your car wash? If so are you having any post customer satisfaction issues? I have found that you still have some customers that want to have a higher gloss shine than what is delivered in the tunnel. Is that your case sometimes? Those brushes in the tunnel that apply dressing just can’t get it perfect every time. You can never completely get away from hand applied can we?

"so who would win in an underwater knife fight, miracle glaze or bioshine?" - Chadpalmer

LOL Chad Would come down to who could hold onto their knife with it covered in dressing? Oh and would they throw some sling in the other ones eyes?

This is like watching two people debate religion or politics! Both believe they are right. In the end it really comes down to interpretation and circumstance for what works best for you.

Danny,

SHAME ON YOU!!!

I'm very disappointed that you would attempt to trivialize a topic that is of great importance to our industry. Tire cleaning and tire protection is very VITAL. Our life depends on our tires performing properly to keep us safe. Shame on you Danny. By the way especially from someone in vendor sales.

Then shame on you, Wendell Smith, for your skullduggery.

It seems you've learned a new euphemism, and are using it toward me. Are you talking about the movie? Just say what you mean...it won't hurt my feelings. Be direct speak your mind. What are you really saying M Parris.

Shame on me??? Oh that is funny. Wendell I am distributor and damn proud of it. It appears to me you missed the point of the post. Yes it was a joke to make light of a situation that is getting out of hand. I made an allowance for yourself and bioshine to acknowledge every product has a place and market. On more than one occassion I have tried to leave you with some dignity that you were so effectively destroying on your own. However if you choose to attack me over it then I would like to remind you this never would have become an issue had you not started this thread with your attempt to shill your products with a endorsement depicted from the point of view as a satisfied customer.

Shame on me? No, Wendell shame on you!

BTW... If I were you I wouldn't go toe to toe with MEP1 he is far better at this than you and not as nice as myself.

Danny,

Relax, dude, you can't take what you put out. I've already told you I shouldn't have posted in that way. I also told you that what i posted wasn't my words, but words from a customer testimonial. Don't you try what I was accused of by Parris... skullduggery. The real point is that you guys know I'm right, and it frustrates you. I apologize for posting the testimonial, but the issue is important to the industry, and you know it. So stop whining like a little kid and deal with the point. Now let's move forward okay!

As for myself, I said exactly what I meant. I used the term without having to look it up in the dictionary first, but I'll do it just for you:

American Heritage Dictionary:
Crafty deception or trickery or an instance of it.

Thesaurus synonyms (words that mean the same thing):
chicanery, crafty, trickery

If you in fact posted words from a customer testimonial, wouldn't they have been more along the lines of "I tried your product and I liked it" rather than "I found this product and I recommend it to you even though you make it"?

Ok Parris, LOL...Here is the actual testimonial that we received from our website from this customer, why don't you compare them to see what you think.

"I had always experienced the leading brands like Black Magic and Armor All slinging tire dressing back on my car. Well I found your product Miracle Glaze at Wal-Mart and it is the best. I am very hard to please, and I've tried every thing, but this product stays on my tires and it doesn't sling on the car when I drive off. I think everyone should try some, especially if they had lost faith in tire dressing like I had".

That is the wording from the customer, and the crux of the message is the same. No trick, you're just allowing yourself to be stuck, and not deal with the issue the customer raised. Oh, by the way...don't pat yourself on the back, because you used Skullduggery in a sentence. Its not a term that shows you're smart, there was a movie with Bert Reynolds with the same name. The word was used on Larry King just the other night...the term is always thrown around during a political season. So relax dude, and hit me back. LOL!!!

The point is still that you began this thread with deception, and because of that you're not likely to be taken seriously. And I'm not your "dude."

You replied to my post with this:

"It seems you've learned a new euphemism, and are using it toward me. Are you talking about the movie? Just say what you mean...it won't hurt my feelings. Be direct speak your mind. What are you really saying M Parris."

I explained what "skullduggery" meant because you made it clear that you didn't know, and at the same time attempted to insult me as if I was trying out my "word of the day" on you. "Skullduggery" isn't a euphemism, it's a word with actual meaning.

What about tire dressing...do you know what that means. Is it a euphemism or Skullduggery? LOL

im sure miracle glaze is a fine product, we all know a high end store like wal-mart carries nothing but the best! but id stick to r&d miracle, your marketing campaign, at least here on this forum, sucks. Your being a jerk to people that know a lot more about this industry than you could ever dream up...some of us even have rather large vocabularies...your arrogance enters the room way ahead of you. To call someone you dont know dude? to imply someone is too dumb to use a big word? id kick your butt in an underwater knife fight, i guarantee it...rememeber, those who cant do generally teach, and you seem to be attempting to teach an awful lot

It seems like you have low self esteem. I know who and what I'm doing and it doesn't need to be validated by you. We can leave it at that. Relax young man...you go way over the top. I don't think you want to fight me anyway. I guess I hurt your feelings by calling you dude. You'll get over it.

This banter has been fun to read, but let's end this topic here. Don't bother adding more comments to this topic, they will be deleted no matter the content.

Hope everyone has a great 4th of July weekend.