Top Brush Problems

I have two AVW top brushes. I have been open 1 year and have just begun having problems breaking rear wiper arms. Even bagging and taping has not worked on the Chrysler Magnum and Mazda CX7. Is it possible the foam is already worn out?

Has anyone else experienced similar problems?

We had a similar problem on our top brush, and we traced the problem to a fragrance additive (alcohol based fragrance) to our polish foam. We had to replace the deteriorated foam (it became stretchable and would wrap around the wiper arm). We never have had to bag the wiper arms.
Check the following:
Do both of the top brushes break the arms? If not which one does it?
Could the washing pressure be too high? Could the speed of the top brush be too high?
Could have an air cylinder failed?

Jimmy

Very often I find its operators not using enough soap. If you're not putting a good coat of foam on the vehicle prior to the top brush, start.

Bill

I'm not that familiar with the AVW top brush, but their website shows it to be a cantilevered system. Where too little lubricating soap can be a major factor, so can too much, or to little, down pressure on the brush. With the loss of material on the brush, the balance gets thrown off. If the "tassles" of the brush don't "break" or bend enough, the tips can get caught in the wipers(front and rear). Optimally, you want about 3" of impact into the spinning brush. This allows the material to glide over the arms without putting too much pressure on them. You just need to move the cantilever weight forward for more down pressure or backward for less.

BTW, in my wash, I found that my mitters were the culprit on rear wipers.(do you have mitters?) The top brush was attacking the front ones.

I have an AVW Top Brush. If the broken wipers are laying under the top brush, that's a good clue. If they are not I would suspect something else. I say this because the waay the brush works is it ends to fall away from vertical SUV type rear windows and most likely hardly touches or does not touch the wipers.

I have modified my Soap app for this brush not due to damage problems but because the foam is expensive and seems to only last 100K cars. I now use a flo jet pump to dispenmse soap from the foamer makeup tank at the same dilution as the soap foamer which is a higher concentrate than when I ran it thru a Dema.

At some locations I use masking tape and tape the wiper to the rear glass. Works well.

I had a top brush for 12 years. I elimiated it in 1994.
1st of all the cloth becomes heavy with soap, the counter balance needs to compensate - but it doesn't in most systems, it breaks wipers, window visors, rear window visors. Mind you this is not happening daily - but it
happens - even if it happens twice a year it is too much.
A mitter does the same job. I use a triple mitter from AVW.
I would never think of used a top brush again.
They creat anxiety for any owner.

I removed after it went throught the back window of an Audi - it kept on turning and filled the back seat up with water and soap.

If there is a chance it could happen - then it will eventually.

Crown car wash, Inc. - Pittsburgh
www.crowncarwashinc.com

Basicaly I have the AVW Top Brush which is foam because it was there when I took over. I also run a double top brush one reverse hanging with Filament, at another location. Yes it is some trouble, but in a shorter tunnel, this is the only unit that does the tops of the cars.

Since Chicago has gonne to Big Taxi Roof top ads, its days are now numbered.

I wholheartedly agree and in fact at my two other tunnels do this. If you have room for triple mitters, you do not need the top brush.

I understand your situation. I would opt for a single
AVW mitter and high pressure the top immediately following
the mitters. The presoak has had time to work and you've added a little aggitation. This would also help the hood and trunk. I think you will see that this is all you need.
I use 2100 series CAT Pump, 25 GPM with 10 HP motor.
I am currently using 16 nozzles to surround the car after going through the mitter, past the wraps and rockers.
I then use a rain arch. Four HP sprays do each wheel and the rest surround the car.
Does a good job of cleaning and rinsing. I am using approx. 10 gals of water/ave. with these the high pressure sprays.

I used to like the top brush. I felt there was no other
way to clean the top of a car properly - but there is.

Good luck my friend.

www.crowncarwashinc.com

We have 4 AVW top brushes in use now for over 3years and have not had an issue with rear wiper blades. Our 2nd top brush is set so that it travels well beyond the wiper and nearly to the bumper of most SUV (nearly to the bumper). Of all the vehicle types that we wash there is only two that have wiper blades of concern that we tape (older model Xterras and hard top jeeps). Both of these are wrap brush related. Xterra is barely hanging on by plastic and the jeep hard top is not one you want to make a mistake with. If the wrap gets hung up in there it can take the back glass window with it. Happened once and once only. All other wiper blades only get a physical inspection. No tape or bags at all. Call me if you would like to talk.
Rory 713.261.9273 or email me at rprince@carismawash.com
We are here to help!

Rory

First, I agree with Earl on the preference for mitter over top brushes. Besides the damage factor, I believe top brushes create a great deal of anxiety on the minds of many customers as they go through. If you look at it from acustomer perception perspective, many are nervous enough when rising through and the top brush's motion and noise on the vehicle can be intimidating. Mitters work just as well without the damage or the intrepidation.

Secondly, after all these years, I cannot believe anyone would invest money in high pressure equipment and then put it in after their cloth equipment. To do so is nothing short of a waste of money. The high pressure should come before any cloth. By doing so,you enable it to deliver to your cloth equipment a vehicle devoid of any heavy dirt other than a light roadfilm making it far easier for the cloth which then has only to remove the film and polish the vehicle.

High pressure before the cloth will only serve to rinse the vehicle and still keeps the burden of the heaviest cleaning on your cloth equipment. There are far easier and less expensive ways to rinse a car than investing $20,000 on a highpressure rinse arch. If this high pressure is after your last cloth just before your rinse and wax arches the mist created will not only interfere with getting a good bead-up but also get sucked into your air dryer intakes making them far less effective as well.

We use MacNeil top brushes at each of 4 washes. We use foam from Gallop Brush in Lapeer, MI which lasts 300,000 plus cars in this application. We've used OEM foam which lasted less than 100,000.

The OEM's tend to use very light foam, which feels gentle, is gentle, is quiet, and is awesome when it's new. As it ages, its physical characterisitics change and it starts to act like cloth, heavier when wet and lighter when dry. As this breakdown happens, the foam also has the ability to begin stretching, wrapping itself around wipers, etc.

We run zero rear wiper damage using 2 top brushes per location. We have no mitters before our wraps, because mitters can stand wipers up, and if they do so before the wraps, the wraps will break them.

Lubrication with a foam top brush is far less an issue than is weight, washing pressure, and dense foam in good condition which has not broken down and become absorbent.

It's the foam, not just the equipment.

Bill has some excellent points. Any operator respects
Bill's comments - as I.

I high pressure on the front end, cover with foam, run through a triple mitter, then wraps. The high pressure after
this takes off anything left of the car. At this point any
film left is very loose, diluted and soft.
It did'nt cost $20K either. Perhaps from Chiefs it does, but
I purchased a CAT 2100 series pump, 10 HP motor, had a stand
built, purchased a starter, built a 3/8 SS pipe arch, etc. I did it for around $6500.

Bill's way is the preferred way. All washes are a little different. It depends on the chemistry you are using, dwell time, speed of conveyor, pressure you are using with your high pressure sprays, nozzles sizes, coverage, etc.
I visited Bill's operation back in the early 90's. Bill has
a first class operation. He is one of the most knowledgeable people in this business.
My wash is modeled after Mr. Magic in Pittsburgh. Jim Shammy was my mentor many years ago.

Good luck

Joe

www.crowncarwashinc.com

I installed a top brush using foam on it 6 or seven years ago. As first configured the brush had to be driven at high speed to keep the pelts from falling into the core when on top (screwey wave effect leaving misses on the car).
I did lift a couple of front wipers and a couple of hatchback wipers. Reconfigured the material to run on disks. This allowed a much slower rpm since the energy is imparted to a much shorter foam pelt. This brush has caused virtually no damage. Mitters are nice if you have the room for three of them. I junked out two mitters and increased the drip space. I use to get seasick going through mitters not the case with the top brush.

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picture?