Banana Peel Conveyor

Has anyone had experience with the new Banana Peel Conveyor from Sonny's? I have met one operator that has cars jumping the conveyor. It's an older wash and could just have an uneven surface but the Banana Peel guiderail in a big lower. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Banana Peel is only 3" tall rather than the normal 4" rails, therefore enabling you to wash lower cars. Furthermore, it is 13.5" wide allowing you to wash large tires. Most importantly the half moon rail design keeps tires in the track and not climbing up over the rails (both outside and inside).

Any conventional conveyor, regardless of the fruity name selection, has the same risks associated with a rolling car channeled by guide rails.

Guide rails too high and you restrict clearance and increase the risks associated with tire and wheel damage.

Guide rails too low and you run the risk of cars tracking properly due to alignment issues or worse yet, jumping the rail and causing damage to vehicles or equipment.

Eventually all conveyors will upgrade to the operational improvements and safety enhancements provided by flat-belt conveyors.

Unfortunately one one major carwash equipment manufacturer (AVW) has engineered washing systems that embrace the benefits of flat-belts and has integrated them into their lineup. Hopefully others will see the light. Consumers already have!

-Steve

Steve,

I see the benefit of a flat belt conveyor, but have some concerns

a) Price is 3-4 times that of a conventional conveyor and they have not been out long enough to know what the lifespan will be vis-a-vis a traditional conveyor.

b) types and cost of maintenance over time

c) How well do they hold up to high wash volumes, particularly in colder climates where they exposed to sand, salt and cinders?

d) How do incorporate the on-line tire shiner?

e) Concrete costs to install a flat belt in place of an existing traditional conveyor, especially in older facilities (mine is 50 yrs. old this year)

Following the thread hijack.....
I like the idea of the flat belt conveyor but I agree with Bill, there are some issues that need to be addressed first before it can become widely accepted.
I was told that Cloister Car Wash has removed the flat belt conveyor from their wash tunnel due to wear/breakage issues. I don't have the whole story but that certainly gives me a reason to pause if I am considering a purchase.

I have no personal experience with the Banana peel conveyor. Before replacing a conveyor because of jumping issues I would look at all the variables that can cause rail jumping and make sure there isn't another problem.

David

Bill...

I suggest that you talk to Willie at AVW or Mike at Safetveyr for the answers.

(A) I think your "3-4 times the price of a conventional conveyor" is a bit high, but the up-front costs are more than a conventional chain & roller conveyor. But I personally feel the value of a flat-belt conveyor should be assessed holistically, given the advantages and benefits. Once you ride through a wash on top of a moving-floor and experience the whisper-quiet, smooth gliding, jolt-free movement... it becomes crystal clear that the distinction between a conventional chain& roller ride in a rolling vehicle... as compared to the flat-belt experience is a no-brainer.

(B) Ask the manufacturer. I've heard of guarantees ranging from 400,000 to 500,000 cars. Maintenance is minimal; like night versus day given the high maintenance requirements fo the older technology.

(C) Ask the manufacturer. Some have been operating for years without problems, but when you're dealing with anything mechanical, preventive maintenance is essential.

(D) I understand that some hydrophobic tire dressings simply need to be sprayed on and left alone. Understand that some equipment makers would prefer to keep their existing lines of stuff as it is because it is more profitable to sell more equipment... as opposed to less. The D-I-Y market has enjoyed spray-off and don't touch stuff for tires for decades.

(E) The concrete work is significantly less actual construction & forming. The installations I've seen have a simple 12-16inch trench with a drain, but I suppose each operation must be judged individually. I understand that a surface flat-belt conveyor is now available that requires no concrete work. Just a flat floor. I saw photos of 2 installations in the UK that are up and washing cars. Ask the manufacturer for more info. and view the videos on YouTube as well as the maker's websites.

I genuinely feel that the flat-belt conveyor provides such a powerful competitive edge with consumers that once ONE properly designed & run carwash puts a moving-floor conveyor in and promotes it, the rest of the marketplace will soon follow — just as the switch from plastic bristles to cloth washing spread due to consumer pressure. It provides a HUGE COMPETITIVE EDGE!

It was not my intent to "hijack" the thread, but there are many pro-active operators who seek a significant competitive edge for their marketplace. A familiar analogy you've used in the past seems appropriate when addressing minor "improvements" in conventional conveyors: Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that it's a pig.

I would think that Cleveland has a fair number of vehicle owners who would love the concept... and would drive to a specific destination just to safeguard their rims from the perceived risk that conventional steel guide rails pose. Just a thought.

-Steve

Steve, I don't think the average customer gives a rats a@# about what type of conveyor is used a the local carwash. A "Huge" competative advantage?LOL

Jon...

Several research studies by a major oil company in Canada that involved focus groups as well as direct surveying of customers have validated that feeling. Same is true in Australia where flat-belt carwash conveyor use has proven to be a tremendous competitive advantage. The feedback we got from carwash operations in the United States is in concert with that assertion.

Obviously there will be mixed feelings about the marketplace impact, especially from those carwash operators with conventional conveyors who prefer to think they still possess cutting edge technology, even in the face of an intelligent alternative. Agreed, both systems effectively convey cars. The newer technology simply does a better job of it. Safer, quieter, smoother, less obtrusive, easier to load... and provide a powerful marketing edge... all seem like advantages to me, and I'm far from being alone. The predominant objection is the fact that the up-front flat-belt cost is more; significantly more in some cases. On-balance though, I personally feel the cost is offset by the overall VALUE, both perceived and real.

Shooting the messenger doesn't change the message of evolutionary improvement. Does that mean that you must change your conveyor tomorrow? Absolutely not. But you may revisit the question when a competitor distinguishes his operation with improved technology that has benefits and advantages that are blatantly conspicuous to consumers.

I've experienced a lot over the years in this industry and have seen a lot of stuff come and go. Moving-floor conveyors make too much sense to ignore.

-Steve

One lesson came from this thread: it's clear that more salesmen follow these blogs than operators.

damn salesmen

Seems as though the only salesman on this thread is Homer.

So why are you damning yourself, Homer?

-Steve

sorry,that was a typo

"especially from those carwash operators with conventional conveyors who prefer to think they still possess cutting edge technology, even in the face of an intelligent alternative". Nice personal attack there Steve. At no time did I say that I felt my conveyor was "State of the art". I dare you to show me a study that shows that the public has any idea about what type of conveyor system the local carwash uses or how it affects their carwash usage.

Jon...

Whoa! Your overreaction surprises me. Re-read the text. There was no attack. The comment was a broad statement, never personally directed at you. Try to keep an open mind and harvest whatever benefit that suits your needs.

As for the availability of research studies for your examination, they are proprietary work and not openly distributed. Often times, research is a role of strategic planning that provides a competitive edge for the client. When it comes to expensive research, it is private and conducting it is pay-to-play initiative.

I offered the information for FREE...as a courtesy, not a challenge. The essential component for the research was the availability of a flat-belt conveyor for customers to experience and render feedback, which they did on several levels. If there is no opportunity to create a comparable alternative to experience, research becomes conjecture. What I cited was genuine research data given for the benefit of operators seeking validation.

You needn't dare me to do a thing, Jon. I offer information and valuable insights as a professional courtesy to this and other forums. You are invited to take what you wish... and discard what doesn't suit your needs.

Sorry if my commentary touched a nerve... and made you uncomfortable. My thoughts were intended to be enlightening, and your knee-jerk reaction to them seemed overly pugnacious.

"You needn't dare me to do a thing, Jon. I offer information and valuable insights as a professional courtesy to this and other forums. You are invited to take what you wish... and discard what doesn't suit your needs."

Where I come from, unsubstantaited claims on an internet messgae forum are worthless. I have never seen someone who could use more words, to say so much of little value, than you have exhibited on this and other forums. Most of what you say reminds me of the instructions on a bottle of shampoo. Lather, Rinse , Repeat...

"I offered the information for FREE...as a courtesy, not a challenge."
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone asked about a specific problem, with a specific conveyor. Your response was nothing more than a sales pitch.

Steve,

3 times the price of a traditional is exactly what I was quoted three years ago when I replaced my conveyor. $100K+ for 150'. At that price and with little or no track record, I was not going to be the guinea pig - not when it comes to the heart of my car wash. Does it sound like an interesting concept? Of course it does. But until it is price competitive with traditional conveyors and is a known quantity, I'll stick with the traditinal. BTW - We don't scratch rims as we have UHMW plastic on both sides of our guide rails, this is also eliminates the tendancy of the tires to grab the steel rails and jump rollers or climb off the conveyor.

Jon is right, customerd don't give a damn about how we pull or push them down the track as long as there is no damage to the rims. Heck we were totally touchless form 1985 to 1997 and 60-70% of the people never even realized it. They simply came to get a clean car and left it up to us. That's why in 1997 when we made the switch from touch;ess to hybrid, the only thing they noticed was that their cars came out cleaner and shinier. Only 2 customers cavetched that they wouldn't come back - but they both did.

Sales pitch? I am a consultant and a writer, Jon. However, I do offer insights and try to provide information to help operators, and it's FREE on every forum used. I also have 40+ years experience as a successful operator in carwashing and detailing. Go to my website if you think I lack the experience or credentials.

If you use a menu-merchandising concept and have service advisors that facilitate sales, accept the fact that you are using concepts that I introduced to and refined in the carwash and detailing business. Dollar-per-car assessment, packaging bundled services and the flex-serve concept, as well.

So before you shoot your miserable mouth off with baseless comments and innuendo, simply say "Thank You and continue to quietly enjoy profits that I helped create for you. And if you don't like my posts, don't read them!